KP Dancers

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Sin-N-Terrors
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Posts: 121

KP Dancers Feb 27, 2014 18:39:22 GMT -5

Post by Sin-N-Terrors on Feb 27, 2014 18:39:22 GMT -5

Contributed by Sanford

Written by Albino:

KP DANCERS:
upside - very versitile, can win by KO or by decision. KP ensures sluggers dont open up too quickly, reducing ips.
downside - higher CHN is usually needed, so after the extra KP and CHN they become very inefficient to deal endurance damage. have problems vs fighters with high CHN.
favored opponent - any fighter with low CHN
feared opponent - any fighter with good CHN and good STR

how to make KP dancers:

start with 9 or 12 STR (6 in higher divs) and maxed KP, 10 CHN, 14-15 CND, even SPD and AGL. cuts can be low or normal. use lightish build for kp dancers to maximize counterpunch effectiveness. kp dancers created with more than 10 STR can be disguised as a flasher if they use a heavy build since 12 STR with 4 KP can flash opponents at low statuses.

by the time kp dancers reach contenders they should have at least 12 STR if not 15, personally i like to have 15 STR to continue flash ability, while still can easily beat opponents on points. once you reach contenders, SPD doesnt need to be close to AGL. stop training SPD at 20 because you need the high AGL for defence (not fp defence). the higher the defence the more the opponent has to opponent up to hurt you, and when they do, BANG!!! the lower the STR the more AGL you should have, since more STR can still flash, they wont need as much AGL, instead they should get SPD. kp dancers should have 13 CHN in contenders.

--KP dancers vs flashers:

with good CHN 4H/8/8 (counter) should be enough, if you dont have that CHN 4H/6/10 (counter) will be better. in both cases if the flasher allouts you should win, you have to worry about inside. if he can KO you with 6H/11!/3 (inside) you should put an extra point or two on DEF. 4H/8/8 (counter) the whole fight can easily win, especially if the KP dancer is the higher STR high SPD variety.
other options/tactics- 4/4/12 (ring) can work against a fighter who uses inside, or a big allout attack, but a 4H/9/7 (allout) may get you.
other options/tactics- 4/1/15 (outside) if he stuns you then there is no point, the aim here is to win rounds. but if he stuns you with DEF, go 4H/9/7 (counter) in the next round.

--KP dancers vs KP dancers:

my most hated matchups. KP can be very difficult to scout at times, and not to mention the amount of options involved when two versitile fighters fight each other. there are IMO 3 main options:

1. slap - slap aggressively enough to win rounds, but with enough DEF so he cannot flash you.

2. dance - use POW equal to his KP (DEF should be high than POW), this almost always ensures that you survive an allout attempt and KO him.

3. flash - not necessarily in round 1, kp dancers are not barbarians instead, slap/dancer till you lose a round then flash (so long as the lost round wasnt due to stuns). usually a later round KOs are more successful when the both fighters have opened up to score rounds.

all of the above should be mix up though out the fight, stun the opponent in each fight if you can, this makes his harder for the opponent to predict what you will do and keeps them honest.
other options/tactics- if you are the stronger dancer and he is prone to slapping, 5B/10/5 (inside) may work out well if your not confident enough to use 5H/10!/5 (allout).

--KP dancers vs 0 KP dancers:

dance like a sissy till you lose a round then allout his ass! you should at least KD him if not KO him, and if you dont lose a round then you win anyway. these dancers usually invest in extra CHN though, you may have to slug if he has excessive CHN.

other options/tactics- win by stunning him in every round. very effective if you can pull it off, they usually open up more because they are losing rounds. beware dancers with STR > 10 that decide to slug.

--KP dancers vs sluggers:

key here- all or nothing, ie 5H/11/4 (counter) or 4/1/15 (outside) otherwise ips could end your career prematurely.

you will want to KO him early if you can, the longer the fight the more ips you will get. sluggers like to use clinch vs kp dancers so allout is your best option here if you have the higher KP type. if not 4/1/15 (outside) could win you rounds while he is scared and using clinch. again the high CHN sluggers will be a problem, counter wont hurt them enough, they use clinch maybe in the first few rounds only then switch to inside to weaken you. if you allout early and dont get them then at least you only take 25 ips instead of possible 100's. never try to outslug a slugger with a kp dancer.

--KP dancers vs clinchers:

generally clinchers are fairly immune to counter. if they have > 10 AGL then you can try counter to KO them, if they have < 10 AGL counter isnt worth it, use the ring. if the clincher has good CHN counter/ring wont be enough, you may need to allout if you want to KO him, if you miss he probably wont KO you, instead he will deal about 50 damage, effectively ending your chance to win. again 4/1/15 (outside/ring) will win rounds, especially since clinch reduces AGG. never try to outslug a clincher with a kp dancer.

Sin-N-Terrors
Sr. Archivist

Posts: 121

KP Dancers Feb 27, 2014 18:40:36 GMT -5

Post by Sin-N-Terrors on Feb 27, 2014 18:40:36 GMT -5

Contributed by Sanford

Written by: Sanford

I started writing this in 2006. Maybe I'll finish this if I can remember what I'm doing.

I've had some WT success with KP fighters from KP Sissies to KP Balanced and Ropists to Sluggers (Yes. Sanford had WT's with non-kp fighters also). Today I'll be explaining how I build and use KP Dancers. KP Sissies and KP Balanced fighters can be built much the same way. Just adjust the str/KP up or down one (or two) notches and the other ap's will fall into place.

Beginning ap's-

Strength/KP:

Heavys: 3/1
Cruisers: 3/1 - 6/2 (3/1 will give you a taller KP Dancer for regions that are overrun by them)
LightHeavies - Feathers: 6/2
SuperBantams - Straws: 9/3

I see no reason to start with > 9/3 str/kp as you'll lose the KP Dancer's greatest asset... his height.

Speed/Agility:

I tend to try to keep Agility = (Speed + (2, 3 or 4)). After the first few fights, I would decide if the dancer will be weighted toward speed or agility. Now some people may tell you that if you weight the fighter with greater speed he is no longer a KP dancer. He still is and they haven't a clue. KP counterpunchers are KP dancers just like many sluggers are clinchers. It's a slight variation decided by just a couple of ap points.

Chin/Cond:

All my KP fighters start with 9/13. The only exceptions are if I need to borrow an ap to make the weight that I would like to start him at. In that case I would borrow a point of Conditioning and train cond in my first fight.

Always low cuts and very light build... ALWAYS. Anything else would be wasted ap's. Put all other ap's into height, robbing a couple from speed and agility to make the weight you are shooting for.

AP's to train (when and where to train them):

For the most part, I train my abilities depending on which would most benefit my current fight... only if I will need that ap in the near future. I will not train beyond the fighter that I envision him as by certain points (18 status and 28 status).

Strength/KP: I almost always train KP to gain ap's for these two abilities. Begin training around 5 status and train to gain 1-2 points of KP by 18 status. From 18-28 status, you will need to train to gain 2 more points of KP.

Speed/Agility: ...can be trained throughout his entire career. If you would like your fighter to be speed biased, max speed out at 20 (in upper contenders). Anything more than that would be like losing ap's because of the diminishing returns of speed.

Chin/Conditioning: Train to gain one point of chin somewhere before 6 status and another point before 18 status (two more points if he is Super-Bantam or lower). Aim for 12 or 13 chin by 28 status. The lower the weight, the higher the chin you may need. Be careful training cond. Extra points of cond can mean extra ip's before he gets where ever you are trying to get him. Aim for 17 cond by 18 status (beginning train of cond around his 3rd fight) and 18 by 28. Too many are just lost ap's. I believe that i may have won a WT with 21 cond, but that is 3 ap's that I would have rather had somewhere else.

To be continued and hopefully finish soon...

Sin-N-Terrors
Sr. Archivist

Posts: 121

KP Dancers Feb 27, 2014 18:45:02 GMT -5

Post by Sin-N-Terrors on Feb 27, 2014 18:45:02 GMT -5

Contributed by Sin-N-Terrors

Written by: Sin-N-Terrors

I fancy myself a KP manager. I like running Flashers, KP Balanced, and KP Dancers. I tend to keep a few clinchers and ropists active in my gym just to throw off the competition, but I tend to spend more focus and energy on KP.

Why? Well first off the KO factor is cool in my opinion. With a KP Dancer you will always have a way to exploit an opponent. The trick is in scouting not just your opponent but his fightplan as well. Look for tendencies, Fighting styles, etc. For example...

Flashers do not stand a chance against a well built KP Dancer. A simple 3H/6/11 (counter); will put a flasher away when he allouts and should withstand any inside attempt. If he makes it past rd.1 he's done anyway.

Sissy's and weak dancers can be forced to raise aggression/lower defense. Which will then set them up for your mid/late flash attempts.

Ropists and Clinchers usually spend as many attributes as possible on things other than chin. A perfectly timed flash somewhere early-mid fight will get you the win, if not get ready to take some serious IP's.

The most serious threat to KP Dancers are High Chin STR based fighters and other KP Dancers. These you have to be very careful against. Again, scouting is a must. And be careful with your flash attempts. Sometimes your flash will be a roll of the dice, but it generally pays off.

KP dancers can be built a variety of ways. I like to make mine look something like STR=9 KP=3; SPD=AGL; CHIN=10; COND=13; VERY LIGHT BUILD

To maximize height at heavier weights you may have to start them off a little weaker. STR=6 KP=2 or when building a 7'1" heavyweight STR=3 KP=1 is a good start. You can train them up early on.

With this You will tend to have a height advantage so counter and outside are your primary fighting styles against shorter opponents.

You must try to do as little as possible to win rounds with lines like 5/1/14 (outside); 7/1/12 (outside); and then, when the moment is right flash with lines like 5H/11/4 (counter); 4H/10/6 (allout); In rare situations when you are fighting a high chin STR based fighter or a freak clincher, you may have to dance the entire fight, do just enough to win, and 1/1/18 your way to victory. Do not be afraid to flash though!

NOTE: I NEVER TRY TO GET INTO AN ENDURANCE BATTLE WITH A KP DANCER. UNLESS FIGHTING A SIMILAR KP FIGHTERS. ENDURANCE FIGHTERS ARE STRONGER AND WILL ALWAYS WIN THE ENDURANCE FIGHT. DO NOT FIGHT THEIR FIGHT. OPEN THEM UP, MAKE THEM COME AFTER YOU, AND KNOCK THEIR ASS OUTTA THE RING. YOU ARE AT A MASSIVE AP DISADVANTAGE. ONLY COUNTER WHEN YOU EXPECT A FLASH FROM AN OPPONENT. SLAP TO WIN ROUNDS!!! PEOPLE MAY HATE YOUR FOR IT, BUT ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BE SUCCESSFUL WITH THIS BUILD

Sin-N-Terrors
Sr. Archivist

Posts: 121

KP Dancers Feb 27, 2014 18:48:42 GMT -5

Post by Sin-N-Terrors on Feb 27, 2014 18:48:42 GMT -5

Contributed by Sin-N-Terrors

Written by: Ghosts Who Walk

There are a few things that I am going to disagree with Senators on the first thing is body lines - I mentioned in another post there are absolutely definite times when body lines from KP Dancers are worth there weight in gold. It's again though down to the opponent and the tactics they use in certain situations.

Flashing - Against any fighter that has decent strength unless you know you are going to get a knockdown then it's almost pointless - why? Because you still only win the round by 1 point so you may as well of kept defence high and not take the massive endurance hit that you do. if you can read a managers tendacy that last point may be redundant for example if after a fighter is stunned you know the manager with start going heavy inside to the body then a double flash can get you the knockout win.

Sin-N-Terrors
Sr. Archivist

Posts: 121

KP Dancers Feb 27, 2014 18:50:45 GMT -5

Post by Sin-N-Terrors on Feb 27, 2014 18:50:45 GMT -5

Contributed by: Jimmy The Harp

Written by: Jimmy The Harp

I don't like plans that have a set flash line for KPDs. I've come across a lot of plans that have if round = 3 then 5h/10/5 (counter) or whatever, and I think those can shorten the life of your fighter. There are many fights where a flash is not necessary to win, and an errant flash line leads to extra IPs, or even enough of an endurance swing to lose you the fight. Maybe against 0 kp counter-puncher, you can flash/stun at will without incurring much in the way of damage, but there are few opportunities for this matchup.

Once you get the fighter up in status you will most likely be scouting more, and this is maybe when you can use a set flash line to break another manager's tendency.

I don't know, just my preference.

I usually build kpds out of regular dancers. I think you can get a regular dancer through regionals fairly easy and maybe take less injury points. Once they hit 10 status, I start adding kp until I get the 15/5 or 12/4 or whatever I'm going for and also gaining some chin. I've had some good success with this strategy.

Sin-N-Terrors
Sr. Archivist

Posts: 121

KP Dancers Feb 27, 2014 18:52:36 GMT -5

Post by Sin-N-Terrors on Feb 27, 2014 18:52:36 GMT -5

Contributed by Ghosts Who Walk

Written by: Ghosts Who Walk (in response to Jimmy's post)

Absolutely 100% correct - a set flash line is ridicules unless you know beyond an absolute shadow of a doubt that you will get the KO from using it.

Again you are right jimmy - in some fights you don't need to flash at all - in actual fact flashing with ensure you will lose. Getting a stun (when I flashed I really wanted a knockdown at minimum) is actually pretty overrated - yeah you win the round by a point, but you win rounds with 6/1/13 and don't lose half the endurance you lose from a poorly timed flash. Secondly a lot of managers would have there fight plans set up (if they are smart) to start really bringing the pain after they have been stunned. Because with each flash attempt from a KP Dancer that doesn't get a knockout the next one is not as good etc etc

Sin-N-Terrors
Sr. Archivist

Posts: 121

KP Dancers Feb 27, 2014 22:04:05 GMT -5

Post by Sin-N-Terrors on Feb 27, 2014 22:04:05 GMT -5

Contributed by Sin

Written by: Pritches Boxing Academy (for The WeBL University)

A KP (knockout Punch) Dancer is a tall fighter with low strength, high speed, even higher agility and a knockout punch. The point of a dancer is to win the majority of his bouts on points but if your opponent is dealing too much damage meaning they are most likely using low defense the kp dancer has the punch to knock him out on the spot. These fighters are very easy to manage so I would recommend them to the new manager.

Here's an idea of starting ability points:

Strength: 6 KP: 0

Speed: 10 Agility: 12

Chin: 9 Conditioning: 14

Height 6 foot 6 Inches

Build Very light

Weight Division Will be cruisers to Light heavies.

Training. For first 2 fights train knockout punch. After that train 1 speed then 1 agil and keep repeating. If you think another fighter your against might have kp or is a flasher train chin up too 10. Near contenders you should start getting strength up to 9 and kp up to 3. By contenders you should have something similar to this.

Strength: 9 KP: 3

Speed: 17 Agility: 20

Chin: 10 Conditioning: 16

Fight Plan Creation

Here's a simple guideline of a plan to use. Depending on your opponent be more aggressive or defensive.

Always start of conservative.

1) 7/3/10 (ring); This would be good against another dancer

1) 5/3/12 (ring); This would be a good way to start against a slugger who goes for flash knockouts.

1) 5/1/14 (ring); This is a good way to start against a pure slugger maybe even 4 aggression.

###Match him in the fight###

You want to match your opponent round by round to take as little damage as possible. If your losing raise your aggression a little. For example:

1) 7/3/10 (ring)

if score < 0 then 8/3/9 (ring)

if score <= -1 then 8/4/8 (ring)

if score <= -2 then 9/4/7 (ring)

if you have high aggression and your still losing then go for a knockout cause the chances are that our opponent is using very high aggression therefore low defense.

if score <= - 5 then 5h/11/4 (counter)

###Kill him if he's dealing too much damage###

If your opp is dealing allot of damage it's very likely that he is using low defense. When he is using low defense he is vulnerable to a knockout blow.

This line means if you lose 5% of your endurance points in any one round you go for the knockout.

if endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 5 then 5H/10/5 (counter);

This line is fine but if you don't knock him down he will deal even more damage and this line will get caught in a loop so you will lose the fight for sure. One way to get around this is to go:

if round = 3 and endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 5 then 5H/10/5 (counter);

if round = 6 and endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 5 then 5H/10/5 (counter);

if round = 9 and endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 5 then 5H/10/5 (counter);

This means it will only try it in those three rounds. If you want to be extra save you could use.

if endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 5 and my knockdowns =< hissknockdowns then 5H/10/5 (counter);

Only use that in later rounds though.

###If i'm stunned early on###

If he stuns me when i'm using high defense he must be using low defense so go for a knockout.

if round < 4 and mystuns > hisstuns then 5h/10/5 (counter)

###Go for emergency KO###

If you have lost for sure you will have to go for the knockout.

11) if score <= 4 then 5h/11/4 (counter)

12) if score <= -1 5h/10!/5 (allout)

###Endurance Checks###

You may need to rest in the fight. If so tie your resting to certain rounds so a slugger doesn't pound you into clinching.

if round = 4 and endurance_percent < 70 then 1/1/8 (clinch)

if round = 7 and endurance_percent < 70 then 1/1/8 (clinch)

if round = 9 and endurance_percent < 67 then 1/1/8 (clinch)

This isn't always the best way to rest but will work well against mediocre strength opponents.

###Emergency Endurance###

If your against a stronger opponent and he has pummeled you so much that you need to rest or be knocked out soon it may be a good idea to use towel but for now.

if endurance_percent < 50 and score > 1 then 1/1/12

this may keep you holding on for an extra round or 2. If your endurance goes below 33% meaning you are exhausted and your opponent probably has a conditional to allout you about now this would be a good time to throw in the towel and save yourself injury points.

if endurance_percent <= 33 then towel

###If im winning###

If I have won the fight it's time to run.

10) if score >= 3 then 3h/6/11 (ring)

11) if score >= 2 then 3h/6/11 (ring)

12) if score >= 1 then 3h/6/11 (ring)

This will protect against an allout attempt and unless you get stunned will win you the fight.

So here's the very basic fight plan which has turned out to be a little less basic than I originally meant it to be. Jesus I just scrolled up and I've wrote allot.

Good Luck

Pritches Boxing Academy

1) 7/3/10 (ring)

if score < 0 then 8/3/9 (ring)

if score <= -1 then 8/4/8 (ring)

if score <= -2 then 9/4/7 (ring)

if score <= -5 then 5H/11/4 (counter)

if round = 3 and endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 5 then 5H/10/5 (counter);

if round = 6 and endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 5 then 5H/10/5 (counter);

if round = 9 and endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 5 then 5H/10/5 (counter);

if round < 4 and mystuns > hisstuns then 5h/10/5 (counter)

if round = 4 and endurance_percent < 70 then 1/1/8 (clinch)

if round = 7 and endurance_percent < 70 then 1/1/8 (clinch)

if round = 9 and endurance_percent < 67 then 1/1/8 (clinch)

if endurance_percent < 50 and score > 1 and round < 12 then 1/1/12

if endurance_percent <= 33 then towel

10) if score >= 3 then 3h/6/11 (ring)

11) if score <= -4 then 5h/11/4 (counter)

11) if score >= 2 then 3h/6/11 (ring)

12) if score >= 1 then 3h/6/11 (ring)

12) if score <= -1 5h/10!/5 (allout)

stop

Sin-N-Terrors Sr. Archivist Posts: 121	KP Dancers Mar 1, 2014 19:26:37 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Sin-N-Terrors on Mar 1, 2014 19:26:37 GMT -5 see WeBL University > Sophmore Courses > KP Dancers (A 4 Part Series)

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Sin-N-Terrors: Am currently adding information to this archive. If you would like to help or contribute, email me blvaught@g.coastal.edu Feb 28, 2014 12:55:06 GMT -5

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llecha: Articles added:

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Peeks guide to creating and using fighters

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Questions about damage conditonals and fatigue

Questions about damage conditonals and fatigue

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